I am half Marxist, half Buddhist – said Dalai Lama 達賴喇嘛宣稱自己是「半個馬克思信徒半個佛教徒」

Last week’s Yazhou ZhouKan made a special report on Dalai Lama.

In the interview with Yazhou ZhouKan, Dalai Lama shared his views on varous issues, including the independence of Tibet, three missions of his life, Marxism, Chairman Mao and more.

亚洲周刊

The following are some excerptions from the report.

達賴喇嘛往何處去﹖
Where is Dalai Lama going?

自二零零二年以來,達賴喇嘛的代表與北京中央政府進行了五次會談,不過,會談結果的詮釋卻各不相同,對西藏的自治問題及達賴喇嘛回國等問題仍存在較大的分歧。達賴喇嘛要求「西藏自治」,北京的中央政府則認為西藏已經自治了﹔從一九七九年始,達賴喇嘛宣布放棄西藏獨立,並在多個場合提及,但北京並不認為達賴喇嘛已經在實踐這樣的諾言﹔達賴喇嘛認為雙方會談很有進展,但北京方面認為會談並沒有實質進展﹔達賴喇嘛提出返國赴山西省五台山朝聖,北京卻不作任何的應諾。

Since 2002, the delegates of Dalai Lama have had five rounds of talks with Beijing central government. But both sides have different understandings in the results of the talks.

Differences remain in issues such as Tibetan autonomy and the Dalai Lama’s return to Tibet.

Dalai Lama wants “Tibetan autonomy”; Beijing considers that Tibet has it already.

Dalai Lama has claimed to stop seeking independence for Tibet since 1979, and he has reiterated this point many times in different occasions; Beijing does not believe that Dalai Lama is following this promise.

Dalai Lama believed that both sides has made big progress in the talks; Beijing claims there is not much concrete progress in the talks.

Dalai Lama wants a pilgrimage to WuTai mountain in Shanxi Province; Beijing does not answer to this request.

達賴喇嘛強調,他不尋求西藏獨立、也不反共,是一貫立場。他第一次去台灣時,對國民黨的連戰講﹕「我不反共。」連戰說﹕「我反共。」達賴喇嘛對記者說﹕「現在連戰可以去北京,不反共的去不了。

Dalai Lama emphasized that he is not seeking independence for Tibet and he is not anti-communism. This is his consistent stand.

When he visited Taiwan in the first time, he told Lien Zhan, the KMT Chairman, “I am not anti-communism.” Lien Zhan told him, “I am anti-communism.”

Dalai told the reporter, “Lien Zhan is allowed to visit Beijing now, while a person who is not anti-communism can not do so.”

一開始,達賴喇嘛就表示﹕「中國很多漢族兄弟的資訊來源單一,對真相了解不夠,我一直有此擔憂,所以很高興能接受亞洲週刊的訪問。」

Dalai Lama said in the beginning (of the interview), “Many Han brothers in China have few channels to attain information; they don’t know much about the truth. I have been worry about this, so I am very happy to have the interview with Yazhou ZhouKan.”

達賴喇嘛稱自己一生肩負三個使命,作為人類的一分子,爭取讓人類充滿歡樂是每一個人的責任,他的第一個使命就是在人類社會發展慈悲,並說如果未來能回中國,相信在這方面可以作出一些貢獻﹔第二個使命是促進世界主要宗教之間的和諧及相互了解﹔第三個才是西藏問題,扮演西藏人民爭取公義的代言人。第一、二將變成終生的使命,在全世界講經。

Dalai Lama said that he has three commitments in his life.

As a human, to fill the world with joy is everyone’s responsibility. So his first commitment is to cultivate leniencies within the human societies. He believes that if he can go back China in the future, he will make some contributions in this.

His second commitment is to promote harmony and understanding among the major religions.

Tibet is only in the last of this list. He is working for the justice of the Tibetan. His first and second commitments will become missions of his whole life; he will convey his belief to all over the world.

他表示﹕「馬克思在經濟學上不僅僅追求利潤,也關心怎樣將利潤平均地分配給大家,讓所有人享受這些利益。在實踐中,從哲學的角度、世界觀的角度,馬克思強調世界上沒有救世主,這和佛教的理念一樣。」他感到,馬克思主義理論具有普世價值,信仰他的共產主義者都是誠實率直的,「如果從資本主義和社會主義兩者去作比較,我是支持社會主義的」。

He (Dalai Lama) said, “Marx did not just pursue profits in his economics; he also cared about how to distribute the profits to all equally and to benefit all. In practice, from the point of the philosophy and the world view, Marx insisted on no savior in the world, which is the same as the idea of Buddhism.” He felt, Marxism has some universal values. Those believer of Marx’ Communism are honest and sincere, “If we compare capitalism and socialism, I support socialism.”

毛澤東把世界觀看得很重,但到鄧小平時代,以經濟為中心,經濟取得很大的發展,但也產生出很多弊端,例如出現貧富懸殊﹔不管白貓黑貓,抓住老鼠就是好貓,「現在黑貓越來越多了,而且是最黑最壞的黑貓。如果要我選擇,我寧願選擇毛澤東重視精神境界的理念」。

Mao took world view as the top priority. But in Deng’s time, economy topped the list. The (China’s) economy has made very big progress. However, that caused many problems too. For example, disparity of wealth has emerged. Black cat or white cat, the one that catches mice is the good cat, “We have more and more black cats now, and they are the blackest and worst cats. I’d rather have the idea of Mao, who insisted on spiritual value.

事實上,達賴喇嘛也同樣面對著時代的轉折,要進行改革的思考。他推動實現了流亡政府的民主直選,建立議會制度,不斷完善民主機制。並早在一九六九年三月十日的講話中就提出﹕「達賴喇嘛的制度是否有存在的必要,要由西藏人民作出決定。如果人民選擇繼續需要達賴喇嘛的制度,人民考慮產生的方式,也許像選舉教皇一樣,教皇去世了,從其他大的主教中選。」

In fact, Dalai Lama is facing a time of change too. He needs to consider reform. He is the driving force behind the implementation of direct election, congress, and consistent improvement of the democratic system in the (Tibetan) exiled government. Early in his speech on March 10th, 1969, he said, “The necessity of Dalai Lama system should be decided by the people of Tibet. If the people choose to keep the Dalai Lama system, they should consider how Dalai Lama is selected. Maybe, Dalai Lama, like the Pope, when passes away, can be elected from the cardinals.”

「逃出來時不須要經過任何批准,回去時卻要經過批准。」但他還是認為,經過近期的五輪談判,與北京直接接觸的效果好多了,雙方之間了解了彼此的思維方式,都更進一步了解對方的立場。達賴喇嘛透露,他的代表去北京受到很好的接待,會談氣氛也很好,「和中國外交部對外發言的講話態度反差很大,所以不知道哪一個是真實的」。

“I did not need any approval when I fled (from Tibet), but it is required when I want to go back.” However, He (Dalai Lama) still believed that, after the recent five rounds of talks, it become much better to direct contact with Beijing. They were getting to know one another’s way of thinking, and further understood another party’s stand. Dalai Lama said that, his delegated had very good receptions, and the atmosphere were very good too. “That was a big difference with what the China’s Ministry of Foreign Affair had said. So I don’t know which is true.”


「我在流亡中去世,就要繼續自己未竟的事業,那麼達賴喇嘛的轉世,只能出現在自由的世界裡。北京肯定會任命一個,結果就會變成兩個(達賴),我經常跟媒體說,以後可能變成兩個達賴喇嘛,一個是官方需要的達賴喇嘛,一個是西藏人民心中的達賴喇嘛」,

“If I pass away in exile, I will continue my unfinished task. So Dalai Lama’s reincarnation will only come up from a free world. Beijing will definetely appoint one. The result will be two (Dalai). I often tells the media, in the future, there may have two Dalai Lama: one is the Dalai Lama required by the government; another is the Dalai Lama lives in Tibetan’s heart.

漢藏民族幾千年都和睦相處,達賴喇嘛對漢民族有特殊的感情,如果與歐洲人比,漢藏的習性更接近。達賴喇嘛也笑說﹕漢藏友好的話,一定可以互補有無,藏人可以給漢人精神食糧,而漢人可以給藏人食物。

Han and Tibetan have got along well for thousands of years. … Compared with the European’s, Han’s habits and customs are more close to Tibet’s. Dalai Lama said, “If Han and Tibetan can live together friendly, they can suely complement each other. Tibetan can provide Han spiritual nutriment, while Han can supply Tibetan food.”

達賴喇嘛基本不看電視,主要是聽廣播,選的還是BBC,比較喜歡英國文化。

Dalai Lama basically does not watch TV. Mostly, he listens to radio. He normally listens to BBC. He like British culture more.

追尋飄遠的理想國


達蘭薩拉的社區管理建設由印度地方政府負責,西藏流亡政府與印度簽約租賃五十年,租約期已屆滿,據悉又續約五十年。西藏流亡政府有健全的行政體系,流亡藏民的衣食住行都由西藏流亡政府負責。這裡的醫療、教育等完整,政府工作人員的收入不高,一個普通的公務員的月薪約一百美元,中午每個公務員付三十盧比(約零點六五美元),政府食堂供應統一的飯菜。百姓如果生活困難,子女教育、醫療等,政府都提供補貼。

西藏流亡政府首席部長桑東仁波且表示,希望藏人及政府幹部可以享受中等生活水平。桑東仁波且說﹕「無依無靠的老人,政府有養老院妥善照顧﹔有病,衛生部保證提供必要的醫治,教育也是一樣。」… 桑東仁波且表示,達賴喇嘛很喜歡社會主義,大家都尋求平等公義,「如果不用過分暴力去推行,社會主義其實是一個很好的制度」。

達蘭薩拉的西藏兒童村負責照料及教育西藏流亡孤兒和貧苦兒童,是一個註冊的非營利慈善機構。… 「西藏兒童村」,並延伸到印度的其他區域,增加了三個兒童村、五個寄宿學校、十個日間托兒所、一個技術學院及兩個青年接待所。西藏兒童村照料的難民兒童達一萬六千多人。

…寄養在兒童村中的孩子都被分成不同的「家庭」,一個「家庭」原計劃不超過二十個孩子,但現在都有三十多個。每個「家庭」都安排「媽媽」,和孩子們一起吃住。曲桑來自青海,她是三個孩子的媽媽,到兒童村當「媽媽」六年,照料四十個孩子,分成兩個大房睡覺,還有一個大廳給孩子們吃飯及做作業。

兒童村的孩子六成以上來自西藏,有的父母從西藏將孩子送到這裡後就回去了,讓孩子留在這裡學習文化。西藏兒童村保留了西藏文化教育的特色,以英語及藏語為主要教學語言,也有漢語課作為選修。不少外國家庭,為了讓孩子學習藏語,學習西藏文化,把孩子寄放在這裡。

西藏兒童村每年的開支約五百五十萬美元,全球有四十一個國家的個人給予資助。村內的教師,六成是由這裡培養,出去讀書後又回來服務的。才旺益喜說,也有些外國人來此當義工,教授外語,村內一千三百多工作人員,也聘請了一部分印度籍人士。

如果從西藏來到達蘭薩拉的藏民超過十八歲,沒有一技之長的可以安排到山下的成人學校,這兒由帳篷到鐵皮屋,現在已蓋起一排排新房,前後已接納有五千多學生,目前有在校生七百三十多人。來自中國藏區的成年人可以在這裡免費學英文、藏語、裁剪和畫畫,學校設有先進的英語聽力室、電腦房等。學完以後,你可以選擇留在印度,也可以返回中國藏區為藏民服務。

一九九三年,從中國藏區出來的成年人越來越多,在沒有任何老師的條件下,西藏流亡政府把一百零七個孩子交給他,帶了帳篷來此紮營。學生在這裡免費學習吃住,每月還有一百盧比零用錢,這裡是西藏人的又一個大家庭。

達賴回憶與中共的機緣

西藏精神領袖達賴喇嘛自一九五九年翻越喜瑪拉雅山脈出走印度,離開中國將近四十八年了。這麼多年來,返回家園始終是達賴喇嘛揮之不去的一份堅持。「出走是因為無奈,回國完全發自內心。」…

一九五九年三月十七日,時任全國人大副委員長的達賴喇嘛和約八萬名西藏人翻越喜瑪拉雅山脈流亡尼泊爾、印度和不丹等國後,至今,流亡海外的藏民人數已逾十一萬。…

雖然,北京政府至今並不接受和認同達賴喇嘛的中間道路,甚至並不信任達賴喇嘛放棄西藏獨立的立場,但北京政府在不同階段都表示,和談的大門是永遠開啟的。…

在接受亞洲週刊的訪談中,達賴喇嘛對五十年前的往事記憶猶新。當年在北京,他是人大常委會副委員長,是當時最年輕的國家領導人,毛澤東把他當小孩,劉少奇、陳毅等國家領導都對他很好。會後,達賴喇嘛還到各地去參觀,共產黨在剛成立的國度中的形象給他留下深刻的印象。

…「接觸省一級的領導幹部和共產黨員,能感受到他們有一種發自內心的熱情,以及毫不利己、專門利人的氣質。可現在沒有了。」

達賴喇嘛說﹕「當時見面就像父子一樣,毛澤東很親切、和藹,給我很多教誨。毛澤東要我直接、秘密地聯絡他。」

一九五七年,達賴喇嘛出訪印度後回西藏,局勢越來越複雜。他給毛澤東寫過兩封信,卻沒有任何回應。地方正出現衝突,如果毛澤東有指示,可以作一些考慮,結果是石沉大海,令他無計可施。離開西藏是下午決定,晚上就撤走

他還透露,當年出走還有一個重要原因是,毛澤東和他會談時曾講﹕「跟著我好好幹,宗教都是騙人的。」這令他非常震驚。不過,社會主義和共產黨人給他的良好印象讓他難以忘懷。

5 thoughts on “I am half Marxist, half Buddhist – said Dalai Lama 達賴喇嘛宣稱自己是「半個馬克思信徒半個佛教徒」”

  1. 达赖喇嘛对共产主义的一些思想感兴趣,这不是秘密。

    在Dr. Goldstein的书The Snow Lion and the Dragon中记载:

    (This chapter describes the events before the “liberation of Tibet in 1950”) Ironically, the young Dalai Lama was not at all opposed to the idea of social reforms, nor was he wedded to the need to maintain the exploitive traditional feudal system in Tibet. In an interview in 1994 he recalled:

    I myself from small liked the idea of mechanical schools. I thought we should have schools, and machines from when I was small.

    The road from Phari to Lhasa was there from the British period, but even though it wasn’t a car road I thought at the time it would be easy to make it into one . . . and I strongly felt that it would be good to have a vehicle road.

    When we arrived in Gyantse [town] I had heard that the Phala family had a small school there, and I had strong feelings about improving schools in the rural areas, and we talked about that. I also thought that taxes like the corvee labor taxes, were extremely bad, and I also did not like the difficult custom [of people being saddled with] old debts [passed down from generation to generation]. When I was small the sweepers [in the palace] told me about these things.[24]

    这个事情从小了说,每个有良心的人都是共产主义者。孟子说,“老吾老以及人之老,幼吾幼以及人之幼。”此心近之。达赖喇嘛乃一佛家弟子,笃信众生平等,赞赏共产主义不值得奇怪。但是人年长之后,就知道众生平等不是件容易的事。有个说法,大意是,人三十岁之前,不相信马克思主义,那是没有同情心,没有血性;但是人三十岁之后,还相信马克思主义,那是幼稚。

    这事情从大了说,马克思主义的实践是二十世纪人类思想史上最最重要的事件。贫富悬殊是否可怕?为什么有的人穷得没饭吃?有的人一掷千金?这公平吗?历史已经证明,简单地均贫富弊端更多,更没有出路。一个社会,既要让每个人无饥冻之忧;另一方面,又能够给有能力的人合理的激励,为自己也为社会创造财富。这不是一件容易的事。看起来,苏联解体似乎标志着马克思主义的失败,实际上,马克思主义正在更大范围内得到实施呢。

  2. 欢迎David 来到little bridge!

    所言极是!受教了。

    当我第一次看到达赖喇嘛有关共产主义的观点时觉得很新鲜,于是我就试着翻译成英文。一面翻译一面查资料才发现其实达赖喇嘛在很多次访谈及演讲时都重申了他的这一观点。

    说实在的,国内人对达赖喇嘛的了解一般说来远没有国外的人了解得多。所以我翻译了第一篇,就没有继续翻译后面几篇了。

    常来逛逛,多多交流。

    Cheers!

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