关于韩国的历史教科书

前段时间我在很多论坛上看到有关韩国历史教科书的帖子。

http://cn.bbs.yahoo.com/message/read_funny_741345.html
http://bbs.military.china.com/jsp/pub/staticFile/htmls/2006/10/1011/5893993_page0.html http://www.fyjs.cn/bbs/read.php?tid=81274
http://military.club.china.com/jsp/pub/staticFile/htmls/2006/12/1011/6848404_page0.html http://free.21cn.com/forum/bbsMessageList.act?currentPage=1&bbsThreadId=1528356
http://bbs.wenxin8.com/read.php?tid=87621
http://bbs.military.china.com/jsp/pub/staticFile/htmls/2006/10/1011/5893993_page0.html http://bbs6.news.163.com/board/rep2.jsp?b=zhongri&i=982873

这些帖子大多数都用了一些相同的扫描图,象下面这一幅。(在这里看更多的图)

1dfc9d6d1e36a9e6ba105e0c0ae4c175

我们伟大唐朝的领土在这副所谓韩国的历史教科书里被挤到西南的一角。这激起国人无限的爱国热情,对如此“无耻”的韩国当然就没有什么好话了。

姑且不论历史遗留下来的问题,这些图到底是不是真正的韩国教科书?

我就此问了一个韩国人朋友,得到了一个否定的答案。

看来是有人搅浑水。

我不懂韩文,只好用英文发了这一篇Are these from the real Korean textbook?,问一下到底这些图是怎么回事。

关注韩国的英文网站The Marmot’s Hole作出回应R. Elgin写道,

…pretty much the same accusation that is commonly made about the Chinese Government and their attempts to reinterpret or revise historical fact to suit their own political purposes.

(这些中国人对韩国人的指控)跟韩国人对中国政府的指控很相像。韩国人指责中国政府为了他们的政治利益而篡改历史事实。

I wonder just where this sort of nonsense is going to go since it is undoubtedly indirectly sponsored by the Chinese Government or, rather I wonder if there is going to be a Chinese Dokdo in the future.

显然这是由中国政府背后支持的。我想知道这种荒唐的东西会走多远,我更想知道将来会不会出现一个中国“独岛”问题。

The Marmot在little bridge上的留言回答得更详细,

There are historians in Korea that make claims such as these—one of the books is by the former vice-chancelor of Daejeon National University, while the others are by historian Oh Jae-seong—but such claims are not widely accepted within the Korean historical community (as the Korean consulate in Shanghai explained when those maps first became news in China in May of last year). In fact, Koreans are much more concerned with what many consider to be creative map-making in Chinese textbooks (both in the PRC and the ROC)—see here and here.

确实有些韩国的历史学家是这么认为的。这其中有一本书是大田国立大学的前副校长写的,另外的书是历史学家Oh Jae-seong写的。但是他们的观点并没为韩国其他历史学家所广泛接受(正如韩国驻上海的领事在去年5月份这些图首先被新闻报道的时候,他所解释的那样。)事实上,韩国人对中国人(包括共和国和民国)在历史书上的创意更为关心,请看这里这里

Winne这么回应,

The above books are not Korean textbooks. If it’s an official textbook, it has the title “교과서”.
Anyway, it is sure to be eccentric people, including Koreans. I’m Korean and don’t know the territory images.

以上几本书并不是韩国教科书。正式的教科书上有“교과서”这个标题。

无论如何,这肯定是一些怪人(做的),包括韩国人。我是韩国人,我并没有看过那些地图。

来自莫斯科的Dr. Lankov回应说,

The map is from a book published by some marginal extremist group of ultra-nationalist amateur historians. Very few people in Korea (and nearly nobody in the professional community) would consider their wild claims seriously. Needless to say, nothing like it is to be found in Korean textbooks. There are some nationalist distortions in the textbooks, but on much, much smaller scale.

这些地图是由少数极端民族主义业余历史学家制作的。在韩国很少人(在学术圈里基本上没有)会把他们那些疯狂观点当回事。不用说,在韩国教科书里是找不到这些图的。在他们的教科书里会有些民族性的偏差,但远远没那么严重。

来自美国的Sonagi先生在韩国住了很多年,后来又迁居青岛4年。Sonagi先生掌握英文,中文和韩文。他帮忙找出很多有价值的资料。

The second image, a book with a yellow cover, is of a book published in 2002 by a retired history professor. The poor-quality color maps (notice that the northern Japanese island of Hokkaido seems to be missing) may have been created by the author, Professor Lim. All of the other black-and-white images http://bbs.news.163.com/mil/968958,52.html ) circulating around Chinese websites are from several books or maps published by the same author, historian Oh Jaesung. The materials were published many years ago, not recently, and one of the images looks doctored.

They are NOT textbooks and the maps and views of history published in these books is scoffed at by mainstream historians …

(上面)第二幅图,就是黄色封面的那本书是由一个退休教授在2002年出版的。

ac25031088efd76c5f24f9a6ded67b8d

那些质量不好的彩图大概是那个作者,Lim教授制作的(请注意上面好像没有日本北部的Hokkaido岛)。其它在中国网上流传的黑白图片是出自同一历史学家Oh Jaesung出版的不同的几本书或地图册。

0afe74b0bf104c91114caa8474cc12ab

这些都是很多年前印的材料了,不是最近出版的。其中有一幅图看起来被人修改过。

那些都不是韩国教科书。韩国主流历史学家很鄙视那些地图和相应的观点…

热心的Sonagi还把他收集的真正的韩国历史教科书扫描并上传到网上,

这是由韩国教育部批准的2002年版高中历史课本里的一幅历史地图

同一本课本中唐代的东北和朝鲜半岛的地图

1952年版的韩国课本中的历史地图。

 

到此为止,我们可以确认那些不是韩国的历史教科书。

韩流在中国到处吹,但很多中国人对韩国还是很不了解。有人利用这点制造网上事端。我不大相信这是中国政府或是日本政府的阴谋,我更倾向于相信这是有的人为了吸引眼球而无事生非。

教科书的真伪问题解决了,但Won Joon Choe先生在讨论中提出了一个很让人深思的问题,

Dr. Lankov and Sonagi,

As a Korean citizen who is unusually attached to his patria in this rootless age of ours, I appreciate that you two are doing a yeoman’s work in defending the sanity of the contemporary Korean historical consciousness. Nor am I surprised by your attempt to inject some perspective here, for you two are both among the most balanced and rational commenters in the Korean Blogsophere–where rationality is often an orphan. But I cannot in good conscience agree with the seeming thrust of your message.

Namely, I object to your seeming effort to simply dismiss these outrageous Korean historical claims on China as rantings of a lunatic fringe. There is a point at which a well-meaning defense transmogrifies into an unreflective apology that refuses to believe that Rome is indeed burning. May I be as bold as to even say, to reverse Burke’s elegant formula, sometimes our helper is our adversary? For instance, speaking from my own intellectual background in political philosophy, the one-sided apology of Nietzsche as purely an aesthete to counter the fascist accusations by Walter Kauffman (or the attempt to portray Leo Strauss as an ordinary “liberal” rather than the father of neoconservatism by his legion of defenders) have distorted Nietzsche as much as corrected pernicious misperceptions of him.

(Won Joon Choe先生在上面两段文字里说,Dr. Lankov和Sonagi是韩语博客圈里少数理性的人。他理解他们的好意,但他们把那几个韩国历史学家的观点评论为极端分子的狂嚎(rantings of a lunatic fringe),并对他们不屑一顾,这却有可能不利于大家对问题的理解。)

And likewise, the fact of the matter is this: There is a serious disconnect between the South Korean public historical consciousness and what most impartial scholars posit as Korean history. Moreover, much of that disconnect does involve the size and power of ancient Korean kingdoms of Gojoseon or Koguryo. While it is true that no textbook (as far as I know) claim that the Chinese heartland used to be Korean, such a belief is ubiquitous in the popular culture. I have certainly encountered numerous Korean students living abroad who believe it and blame Chinese chroniclers and their Korean sycophants for distorting the true Korean history.

同样,事实是:南韩公众的历史认识与大多数公正的历史学家所认为的韩国历史有很大的差异。而且,这些差异很多都跟古代韩国高句丽的大小与影响有关。在韩国确实没有课本(至少按照我的认识)把中国中原地带划为以前韩国的领土,但这种观点在韩国的大众文化里却普遍存在。我就遇到无数的住在国外的韩国学生相信这种观点。这些韩国学生指责中国历史学家和韩奸们歪曲了真正韩国的历史。

In fact, as I have written elsewhere, such a view is the standard view among Korean television historical dramas. In “Yeon Gaesomun,” perhaps the most anticipated and costliest Korean historical drama of all-time, it is explicitly said that China was Korean land in the time of Gojoseon. And in the context of the drama, this is advanced as a historical fact, not fiction. Likewise, in an upcoming drama about Dangun, the putative mythic founder of Gojoseon, Dangun’s territory supposedly spanned from Tibet to Sakhalin. And online Korean historical fora are absolutely replete with a similar historical understanding.

事实上,就如我在其它地方提到过的那样,在韩国历史电视剧里这种观点是主流。在也许是有史以来最受瞩目和最昂贵的韩国历史电视剧《渊盖苏文》里就明明白白地说中国在高句丽时期是韩国的领地。在整个电视剧的剧情都把这件事是当作历史事实,而不是一个虚构的请节。同样,在即将播出的有关檀君的电视剧里,檀君就大约拥有跨越从西藏到库页岛的疆土。(檀君是传说中高句丽神秘的开国国君)。在韩国网上的历史论坛里到处都充斥着类似的历史观点。

So we do have a serious problem in the South Korean historical consciousness or imagination. And we don’t need Hegel nor Kojeve to tell us that, at least in East Asia, history often commingles with reality to produce an ugly brew between nations. So I propose that we talk about addressing this problem rather than intoning that it doesn’t exist.

因此,在我们的南韩历史观有一个严重的问题。至少在东亚,用不着黑格尔(Hegel)或科耶夫(Kojeve)提醒我们就可以知道,历史总是和现实纠缠在一起酿成各国的苦酒。就此我提议我们来聊聊这个问题,而不是一路高歌,装着问题不存在。

 

Won Joon Choe先生这一大篇文字很有“众人皆醉我独醒”的味道。我很佩服他的清醒与深刻。

现代科技发达,我们很容易就能接触到不同的信息。有些问题只要我们稍加分析就不难分辨出是事实还是谎言,就像这次我发现有人把几本韩国书放在网上冒充韩国教科书来挑起事端一样。

但是世界上很多的事情并不会因为科技发展而变得简单。同很多其他的中国人一样,无论以前接触到的是事实还是谎言,对于中国的感情已经深深地扎在心里。我不能免俗,受到一点点刺激就会热血沸腾,这时候任何的冷静分析都无济于事,因为心中已有答案:谁不希望自己的祖国好呢?

争执是难以避免。这时候存着一份开放的心而进行沟通就显得弥足珍贵,而且很多时候是必不可少的了。

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mahathir_fan
mahathir_fan
17 years ago

Here’s another comment by a Chinese poster:

“韩国人是对的,所以我们应该统一成一个国家。中国+韩国=???当然还叫中国啦”

Translation: Koreans are correct. So we need to reunify to form one nation again. China+Korea=??? Of course, we’ll still call that China.

Celn
17 years ago

高丽棒子还真不是一般的自大

Sonagi
Sonagi
17 years ago

“高丽棒子”

Nice ethnic slur, Celn. Would you tolerate a Westerner using the word “Chink” on your blog, Jackie?

Sonagi
Sonagi
17 years ago

I respect your respect for freedom of speech. As the blogger, it is good for you to criticize commenters who make personal insults and ethnic slurs. Some bloggers delete messages and ban posters while others chastise the offending commenter. I think you should leave it because Koreans need to know that there is rising anti-Korean sentiment in China, and one reason for that rise is Korean nationalist displays like the recent silver medalist speed skating team at the Asian games.

mahathir_fan
mahathir_fan
17 years ago

The Korean author who authored the book where “United Silla” is bigger than Song Dynasty do have a point.

I have not read the book so I am postulating. I’m not an expert in the history of this region either. I have only started reading on and off the past months.

Anyway, it is possible that “United Silla” is bigger than Song Dynasty if we consider the dynasties esp. the Jin Dynasty that controlled those regions to be part of “United Silla” if they could trace their lineages back to “Korea”.

But like what the Chinese posters said, “The Koreans are right, so let’s reunite our countries again, of course we’ll still call it China. 😉 “

huzi
huzi
17 years ago

Peng, happy Chinese new year!
Maybe you have heard about this event:
http://dzh.mop.com/mainFrame.jsp?url=http://dzh.mop.com/topic/readSub_7305850_0_0.html
I don’t think the Korean mass is still dispassionate.
They are threatener for China now, we need catch the ball before the bound!

huzi
huzi
Reply to  Jacky Peng
17 years ago

以下是他们已成为威胁的原因:
1、普通韩国人认为中国占领了他们祖先的领土渤海国、高句丽(东北),他们的使命之一是收复失地。
2、韩国人在东北和青岛建了很多地下基督教神学院,名为传教,实为搞渗透。
3、他们在中国搞了千里传音组织,网罗各地搞分裂的少数民族。
4、通过建立环球阿里郞网站等手段,煽动中国的朝鲜族独立。

他们的教育是对中国怀着恶意的,而不仅仅是出自民族自尊心,在这种情况下还想一厢情愿的维护友好,是天真的表现。
他们的目标是中国的TERRITORY而不是什么school learned,不要忘了农夫与蛇的故事。

huzi
huzi
Reply to  Jacky Peng
17 years ago

在东北,时不时有韩国人头绑“还我河山”的条幅。韩国的精英阶层使民众相信东北、渤海国是他们的失地,这是韩国最大的报纸<朝鲜日报>的文章,请注意最后一段:http://chn.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2004/02/05/20040205000000.html

退一步说,其实根本不用找什么证据,在逻辑上就能证明,为什么韩国会为1500年前的高句丽归属问题争的你死我活?学者、政府、民间都在说高句丽,只可能是为将来“收复”领土提供法理依据,这绝不仅仅是学术上的争论。就像中国会整天到欧洲叫嚣“元朝是中国的”吗?绝对不会。

地下神学院的事绝对真实,但我也拿不出什么证据,到东北去问很多人都知道。如果往前追溯,2002年中国政府曾向韩国抗议韩国在中国境内非法传教,基本是在那时开始的。

至于第3点,我确实是道听途说的,不过这种事应该不会空穴来风。

环球阿里郎网站:http://www.arirang-world.org/
看IP知道,它的主机在韩国。最近它把注册的难度提到了变态的级别,如果注册不了(注册才能进论坛),可以在百度搜索这个网站的名字了解。

huzi
huzi
Reply to  Jacky Peng
17 years ago

不管各界怎样争论,事实是:很多韩国人已经在中国境内叫嚣归还领土了,而在中国几乎没有人想到“收回朝鲜”。事实是很简单的。

>>“我们的意思不是要回到“恢复我们的以前领土”的错误的保守主义。”
这正说明有一些韩国人认为应该“恢复我们的以前领土”,否则他也不会在这里纠正了,而且他的纠正也不过是同一件事换一种说法而已。

其实我们是在不同的角度关注这个问题,好像您是学者,力求在公正、客观的角度评价这个争论;而我作为一个普通中国人,感到我们的领土让人家惦记上了,一种国家受辱的气愤(长白山事件)。

中韩需要友好,但怎样维护友好,决定于韩国少点野心、中国多点手腕,争论只会使两国关系更糟。

huzi
huzi
Reply to  Jacky Peng
17 years ago

要多少才算多呢?在21世纪,很少有一个国家像韩国一样,用主流媒体宣扬“收回”别国领土。

电影<迷失的记忆2009>有这么一段,老人向坂本正夫一本正经地讲述历史:
“2008年,历经60年的分离,南北朝鲜奇迹般的再次统一。成为拥有强大军事和经济力量的新国家。以东亚新强国的姿态出现在世人的面前。然后国内产生了运动,试图收回古代朝鲜人生活的土地。你可能不知道,可满洲一带最早是我们祖先高句丽人的领土。当然,中国政府不会接受这么做… ”
这样的电影会影响多少韩国青年?

长白山事件后,韩国各大媒体和网站都一片欢腾,这什么都说明了。

这是北大孔庆东教授的博客,他在韩国待过几年,文中提到韩国的领土梦:http://blog.sina.com.cn/u/476da361010006oj

以上仅是对“叫嚣归还领土的韩国人到底有多少呢?”的回应。

最后问您一个问题,如果您愿意回答的话,您是不是中国朝鲜族?

最后祝您新春快乐

lora
lora
17 years ago

I wonder just where this sort of nonsense is going to go since it is undoubtedly indirectly sponsored by the Chinese Government or
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
这次可是教科书了哦,中国政府可没空传这谣言。

據南韓《朝鮮日報》報導,韓國教育部門日前宣布對新版初中、高中教科書做出修正,將朝鮮半島進入青銅器時代的時間提前一千年,比中國還早了五百年。
  南韓廿三日稱,應學界要求,從今年新學期開始,將採用新編初中、高中教科書,將青銅器時代的開始時間從「公元前十世紀(公元前一千年)」修改為「公元前廿世紀(公元前二千年)~公元前十五世紀(公元前一千五百年)」。  此前,韓國高中歷史教科書中,曾在「古朝鮮和青銅器文化」篇章中註釋說:「學界雖有異論,但韓國青銅器時代可以從公元前十世紀追溯到公元前廿~十五世紀」。新版教科書以更肯定的語氣將這一注釋納入本文。舊教科書原文是:「繼新石器時代後,韓半島在公元前十世紀左右進入青銅器時代,滿州地區(指中國大陸地區)在公元前十五世紀~十三世紀左右進入青銅器時代」。新教科書修改為:「從公元前二千年到公元前一千五百年,韓半島青銅器時代正式開始」。  《朝鮮日報》指出,韓國學界對於韓半島青銅器時代早於公元前十世紀開始,已經有所共識,但至於是否提前到公元前廿世紀,學界仍有不同意見。《中新網》引述南韓媒體的報導說,韓國有些學者認為,此次南韓政府太性急了點。

Jacky Peng
Jacky Peng
Reply to  lora
17 years ago

我是不大相信那些假历史教科书是中国政府在幕后支持的,更可能是一些无聊的人想要吸引眼球而做的。也许我是天真了一点吧。

这里有一点很有趣的地方。在网上如果有人公开维护中国政府,很多外国人就会怀疑那人是中国政府派来的。我觉得中国政府虽然有很多毛病,还不至于象北朝鲜那样流氓。

从这里和Marmot上的讨论我们可以知道中国人和韩国人的对历史的认识有很多不同,但这并不等于我们跟韩国人不能做朋友。相反,我们更应该加强交流。

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